Google Search’s Spam Problem

Mar 5, 2024It Depends - An SEO Podcast, SEO

In this episode, Jay and Lindsie discuss the current state of Google search results spam. They share their opinions on the quality of search results and the increasing presence of ads and product listings. They also discuss the uncovering of a giant spam network and the concerns with Google properties, such as Google Drive and Google Groups. The conversation then shifts to the dominance of user-generated content, particularly on Reddit, in search results. They explore the potential impact of these issues on marketers and business owners, as well as the future of Google and the role of Sundar Pichai. Overall, they highlight the need for marketers to stay informed and consider alternative search solutions.

March 5, 2024 Update 

One day after recording this podcast, Google announced a major search quality update to address these very concners. Check out SearchEngineLand’s article on the topic. 

Key Takeaways

  • Google search results have become worse in terms of quality and are increasingly filled with ads and product listings.
  • A giant spam network has been uncovered, leading to low-quality search results for local and long-tail queries.
  • Google properties, such as Google Drive and Google Groups, are also part of the spam and malware concerns.
  • User-generated content, particularly on Reddit, is dominating search results and raising questions about the reliability of information.
  • Marketers and business owners should stay informed about the evolving search landscape and consider alternative search solutions.

Chapters

00:00 Introduction

01:01 Opinions on Google Search Results

10:37 Uncovering a Giant Spam Network

20:57 User-Generated Content and Reddit

26:02 Impact on Marketers and Business Owners

28:52 Concerns for Sundar Pichai

32:11 Unknown Future and Alternative Solutions

Transcript

Lindsie (00:01.294)

Jay, how’s it going?

 

Jay (00:03.484)

It is going alright. What is up, Lindsay?

 

Lindsie (00:06.99)

Well, I know you’re very excited for this episode 12 of It Depends. We talked at the end of last week and you were like, I can’t wait to talk about Google spam. And are you still feeling in that space today?

 

Jay (00:21.948)

I had a spam and egg omelet for breakfast, a spam sandwich for lunch. I’m full of spam and so is Google and let’s get into it.

 

Lindsie (00:32.398)

You’re ready for your first heart attack of 2024. Awesome. Well, to give kind of high level context of where we’re gonna be today, we are gonna dive into the current aspects of Google search results spam. Some opinions on what we’re experiencing, especially as people that are in the environment every day, all day, what the news has been.

 

current day at what’s happening and then some predictions on what this could all mean, where we think the market is potentially going. I will caveat this of like, we don’t know, none of us really know. Again, this is a podcast that says it depends and there’s a lot of speculation in where we’re going in all this. You look very confused by that statement. Do you know exactly where we’re all gonna go?

 

Jay (01:23.366)

No.

 

Yeah, this is not guesses. This is not predictions. We are fortune tellers, soothsayers. This is exactly what will happen. And you’re hearing it here first.

 

Lindsie (01:38.35)

and we know somebody at Google that gives us all of this information, just like that guy that sent you an email and told you that.

 

Jay (01:48.281)

Yeah. All right. So where do we begin?

 

Lindsie (01:53.55)

So let’s start with kind of the first opinion on results. So when you go to Google in your day -to -day life, are results better and or worse than they have been historically? What’s your opinion? What do you think, Jay?

 

Jay (02:13.335)

I think they’re worse, worse than they’ve been in like the average moment in Google’s modern history, like the last five to 10 years. It is getting harder to find the things I want, even when I already know those things exist and I just didn’t bookmark the site and I’m trying to find something that I have found in the past. One of the biggest things that comes up for me,

 

is Google seems more aggressive than it’s ever been with trying to push you into products. In terms of like you’re searching for something and it’s like, we’re going to give you things you can buy. We’re going to give you ads you can click on. I know it’s still not great, but like image search went through a really horrible period where anything you searched for was product images. And now it feels like searches that way. Like one example, I was trying to look up cause

 

Lindsie (02:53.614)

Mm -hmm.

 

Jay (03:10.133)

I spend my entire life searching for guitar things. Uh, there’s, there’s one brand and kind of family of guitars that has several different models. And I couldn’t remember the name of one of them that isn’t around anymore. And I was looking up, uh, you know, it was like Jackson V history or model variations or discontinued, but like all of these things that are like very clearly saying I’m looking for information on something.

 

Lindsie (03:13.516)

No.

 

Jay (03:38.58)

And something that like doesn’t exist anymore because they stopped making it. And I was getting nothing, but like, here are stores where you can buy a new version of not the guitar you were looking for. And that’s, that’s all it would give me. And I run into that probably once a day.

 

Lindsie (03:43.244)

Mm -hmm.

 

Lindsie (03:55.534)

Mm -hmm. Yeah, well, and I absolutely despise how much, even if you are searching for a product, like let’s say theoretically you were looking to buy a particular type of guitar, the entire results feels like you’re on Amazon. There’s so much to click on. Everything feels like it’s an ad, and I just don’t know what to do with it anymore. And whether it is these random product reviews or it is a

 

bye bye bye, it feels like it’s getting so shoved down your throat. Now, is that a spam issue or is this just a how Google’s search results is functioning? I mean, how does spam play into the impacts of the search?

 

Jay (04:45.555)

I mean, I think you touched on it a bit with the, you mentioned product reviews and the like alien headed elephant in the room is, is Reddit. So I mean, spam takes many forms and I would argue, and I think a lot of other people would argue the way Google handles review searches historically is they give you results that are full of spam. I mean, it’s the classic case of.

 

here are all these websites that review products, but they don’t actually review products. They just aggregate Amazon reviews and then give you affiliate links to the products. You’re not learning anything. You’re just giving them a commission if you happen to click a link and buy something. And it seems like Google has given up on this and just outsourced it to Reddit with the idea that Reddit is not inundated with spam and that there’s not like.

 

Lindsie (05:36.942)

No, it’s not.

 

Jay (05:39.065)

Every, every post you go to that talks about anything commercially related. There’s not just like some random user with zero karma. That’s like, I use this product and find it amazing. And then some other random user with zero karma comments. And like, I also find it amazing. And I thought this was great insight. Like, so just the fact that it’s like millions of people all spamming at like micro doses, like.

 

Google thinks that that’s better or that’s just what they think people want. So yeah, it’s, I mean, that’s not even getting into some of the other spam we’re going to talk about, but I mean, it’s just like the topic de jour is how much this user generated content has like overrun Google results.

 

Lindsie (06:28.66)

Mm -hmm. Yeah, so let’s talk about the the everyday human I guess that is Just living their life not googling things all day or working within this space. Do you think they are? Experiencing this is this something that you think somebody who’s not looking for it is going to notice these search changes?

 

Jay (06:51.92)

I mean, I definitely get the offhand remarks from people in the non -tech orbit that are like, it’s harder to find things or I have to go to several websites now when I used to always go to the first one. It feels like it’s starting to break through. I mean, I certainly notice it a lot. Like we’ll get into some, some like horrific examples of spam and degraded quality of search results, but.

 

Like I said, it’s every day I get frustrated with Google and just like have to start over or go somewhere else. So when I hear random comments from other people that just have like vague sense of frustration, I’m assuming it’s impacting everybody to some degree, but I don’t know. What do you think?

 

Lindsie (07:39.054)

I mean, I agree. And I think that we’re at a phase of if we’re feeling this so much, people are starting to even feel it lightly. Where are we going from here? If this is just the tip of the iceberg, people are going to get really upset. And if the average everyday person experienced it even to the degree that we see it every day,

 

they’re gonna stop using Google or we’re gonna find some other alternative solution to find the information we need. And so I don’t know that people fully understand it yet or see it consciously, but I do think it’s coming and it’s not getting better, I think is the biggest concern. Like we’ve seen ebbs and flows of search result quality over time.

 

different algorithm updates will come out and you’ll be like, oh, this is really bad. And then it’ll get worked out. We’re seeing over the last year, I mean, I was looking at Reddit posts and articles from a year ago that was complaining of the same stuff. So it’s not like it’s getting better. It seems like it’s degrading further. Would you agree with that?

 

Jay (08:57.771)

I think so. And I mean, one thing you see in terms of people getting frustrated or angry is if you follow social media, I see more and more business owners and website owners just furious and distraught and lost in terms of what to do because especially in the last three, four months, they’ve seen traffic plummet where they’ve built much of their business on organic search traffic from Google.

 

And sure caveat that like that’s not a guarantee, you know, Google, you don’t have a right to get traffic from Google, but they’ve seen these giant declines. It’s impacted businesses and it’s not that, Oh, somebody came along and did it better. It’s all of the traffic that used to go to our site is now just going to these garbage websites that are doing AI generated content or just.

 

total nothing. So that makes it even harder. And I’ve, you know, you see a lot of like Danny Sullivan, the Google search liaison getting a little snippy with people just coming at him with the same complaints every day on Twitter or wherever else.

 

Lindsie (10:14.414)

Okay, so kind of initial observations here. Let’s get into more of the physical news, the things that we know and have heard about in recent history. So this first one is a giant spam network that was uncovered. Tell me a little bit more about that and what that means.

 

Jay (10:37.085)

Yeah, so this is something that came to the surface after the helpful content update, which I’m not even going to get into all the jokes about helpful content at this point. But what started happening, there’s a search engine journal article about this. I think Lily Ray of the SEO world was one of the first people to like really bring attention to it. But a lot of low volume, like local and long tail queries.

 

were being overrun with spam in the search results. So the, the example that like kicked off this whole discovery of this issue was like, if you search for Craigslist, use car parts near me. Like that’s, that’s something that is both local and long tail. And there’s really not that many logical results for that, that query. And in the past, Google might’ve said like, here’s Craigslist and here’s maybe different cities.

 

Craigslist pages and then maybe we’ll give you some auto parts stores or eBay motors or who knows what. Now all of a sudden it was the first result or two is Craigslist and then everything else was just these nonsense websites that were auto generating paragraphs of content about like all of these long tail searches. They offered no solutions to anyone. It was, you know, there was ads or affiliate links, whatever. I forget even what it was. Um,

 

But after some digging, folks in the SEO world found that this was all coming from like primarily one network of interconnected sites. They were all linking together very like tightly knit network. And it’s not that these sites had a ton of valuable links or even a ton of links period. It just seemed like the links were there to get the sites noticed. And because they had content on these obscure queries, that was enough.

 

for Google to rank them. So it seemed like a shift from, you know, all of these things and links matter for ranking. And really it’s just like, you have content, that’s what we want. Cool. Cause we don’t know what else to do with these queries. And maybe something got tweaked a little too aggressively in one of our updates.

 

Lindsie (12:58.958)

It’s really interesting. I was just thinking about kind of what made Google great at the beginning. And as much as I am not an advocate of going out and just building backlinks to build backlinks, like one of the things that made Google successful was using indicators from reputable sites to say, I trust this. That’s what a link was. It was a trust signal from other sites. And then,

 

Again, we’ve gone through these iterations of more links are better, all links are better, then it’s like, well, some links are okay, some are bad. I mean, we’ve talked about toxic backlinks in this podcast. You know, there are so many pieces, but it’s almost like Google is almost ignoring them entirely other than the discovery like you noted. But then it’s just content. And now we have bots just writing content like crazy.

 

Jay (13:57.987)

Yeah. And, and there’s certainly still people out there that like link building is their number one SEO tactic that are successful, but it seems like in the broadest sense, you know, Google is like, we have this whole page rank thing and it was great for a long time. And it was like, quality is better than quantity, but with enough quantity, you can outweigh quality. And, and that’s like, shouldn’t.

 

Lindsie (14:22.478)

Right, caveat.

 

Jay (14:27.427)

be a hard problem for a really big smart company to solve. But yeah, it seems like they’re like, well, people just keep scaling up link building efforts to where it’s hard. So we’re just going to overcorrect in this other direction. And yeah, it’s certainly not for the better, at least not right now.

 

Lindsie (14:32.974)

Mm -hmm.

 

Lindsie (14:52.366)

Mm hmm. So one more question and another opinion question before we get to another kind of concern in terms of news. Do you think as the average consumer, we should be worried about this? Are all of these sites malicious or do you think it’s more of a revenue generation scheme where it’s about ad dollars? Or is this we need to be really cautious about what we’re clicking on because of malware and all of that? Because I think spam can get

 

a little foggy in what is just bad content and what is dangerous.

 

Jay (15:28.639)

It’s certainly a mix of everything. I mean, there are some sites that have gotten a lot of publicity in this whole ordeal that just seem to be like, you know, the, the proverbial Raptors testing the fences. Like we’re just creating sites to see what, what ranks and what we can get traction for. Yeah. There are like affiliate networks. There are sites that are showing a lot of ads and stuff like that.

 

And there are plenty of sites that are like selling counterfeit problems or counterfeit products. Uh, seen sites that are like pretending to be another brand for who knows what reasons, but probably just to like steal your credit card number in, uh, in the unfortunate circumstance that you like, you go through a checkout thinking that you’re on a store you’re you’ve heard of, but really it’s some other domain.

 

I mean, we, we had that happen with one of our clients where there was multiple websites that like scraped a bunch of their content and product images, took their logo and threw it on a random domain. And I mean, you could go and check out, um, and who knows what would have happened from there if you did it.

 

Lindsie (16:27.278)

Yeah.

 

Lindsie (16:45.582)

Yeah, it’s a little bit of a caution story too. There’s still value in checking the domain and the security protocols and all those things that are still important and even more today. So tell me a little bit more about how Google properties are a part of this overall concern.

 

Jay (17:08.511)

Yeah. And I think this part of it, I mean, I included it in our outline just because it shows one, how much Google is, is just like looking for content on topics and two, how out of control the problem is and how little of a handle Google has on things today. So, so two other examples that have, have like gone around SEO circles.

 

that are pretty concerning is a lot of like adult searches and frankly like illegal adult searches like celebrity phone hack type stuff. A lot of those results have been linking straight to Google Drive documents and a lot of those documents are just like malware. You know, they’re trying to get you to think you’re getting…

 

some illicit video or image and download it and not realize that you’re installing something or whatever. And there’s like, I did some digging on just like what SEMrush has in their database of keywords. And there’s like thousands upon thousands of these that are ranking. Another one is Google Groups. So, you know, anybody can…

 

with a Google account can create a group and we use them for like group emails and stuff like that. You can use them for kind of like simple message boards. And there’s tons, if you’re looking for buying some illegal drugs online, there’s a bunch of Google group sites that claim to be able to sell them to you. And like, yeah, websites where you can do illegal things and buy illegal stuff, like those exist. Those have always existed as long as the internet’s been around.

 

but the fact that like Google is ranking its own properties for these searches and not recognizing, I mean, we’re not talking like the most obscure level teenage language or something for a drug. We’re talking pretty basic searches for, I want to buy this drug that is illegal everywhere. And Google’s like, yeah, here’s Google groups. Like.

 

Lindsie (19:00.75)

Nyah!

 

Lindsie (19:21.198)

here’s a great place for you to connect with the product that you’re looking for.

 

Jay (19:24.727)

Yeah, we’re, we’re solving people’s problems here. Um, so yeah, just the fact that that exists, like that makes me think like it’s a really clear sign that Google just does not know what is going on right now. And it’s, it’s ability to rank good quality websites and understand what people are searching for and serve them the right stuff is, is like severely diminished right now. And.

 

You know, fine. Like you can, there’s plenty of legal and ethical concerns with what, what I was just talking about, but you can kind of like laugh it off as being on the fringes. But this is a company that’s like, we’re going to take things with your money and your life very seriously. Like if you are searching for urgent medical help, we are not going to steer you in the wrong direction. And when you get into that stuff, I mean, I, do you really trust them to do the right thing or.

 

Lindsie (20:11.15)

Right.

 

Jay (20:23.575)

be capable of doing the right thing? I think that’s a pretty open question.

 

Lindsie (20:28.876)

Mm -hmm. Okay, let’s move into one of the most recent and recently talked about piece, which is Reddit. And all of this user generated content and there are other sites as well, but tell me a little bit more about how Reddit and these sites that are just essentially conversational are taking over the search results and why.

 

Jay (20:57.207)

Yeah, I’ll try and breeze through the background on it because it’s, it’s been covered a lot, at least in the SEO world. But in the last month, uh, going back to Lily Ray, who we mentioned earlier, she did a study through one of her. Like visibility tracking tools or one she uses that showed Reddit had an 800 % increase in visibility. Uh, there was a.

 

great story on detailed .com that was looking at product review searches. They did a sample of 10 ,000 keywords of like best blank or that kind of thing. And Reddit ranked for 97 .5 % of the SERPs in that study. So, you know, 9 ,700 plus Quora has grown in the hundreds of percent in terms of visibility.

 

And there’s tons of other like user generated content forum sites that are also showing huge growth and also dominating search results. So we touched on this a little bit a few minutes ago, but there seems to be this idea that, you know, all of these like review sites are just garbage. They’re not actually reviewing products. There’s no hands on experience. And the folks at Reddit and other sites are.

 

they’re doing a better job. You know, the, the classic thing is both because Reddit’s internal search is terrible and always has been, and because of the way people just have started searching, you’d be like, uh, you know, best iPhone case Reddit. And people would add that on because I don’t want some blog that has never tested a case to tell me which one is best. I want Reddit users to do it. Um, but also as we were mentioning, like,

 

If you actually look at what happens on Reddit and you know some of the most prominent responses in these threads that are ranking, you see users that their whole post history is just like pushing one brand of product and then you know what’s really going on here. Or you have Google ranking like you know if you search for like that best iPhone case you might have Google ranking a Reddit thread from like 2017.

 

Jay (23:19.026)

It’s like, nobody has an iPhone from 2017 that is looking for a case or anymore. Pretty much nobody does. You know, those phones probably don’t hold a charge at this point, but Google seems like so eager to rank Reddit posts that it’s even ranking obviously irrelevant ones. So it’s a big mess. It’s been a growing over the last year, growing big mess. Um, you know, we,

 

Lindsie (23:25.74)

Right?

 

Jay (23:45.65)

might be in the middle of a Google update as we record this on March 4th. And Reddit has shown some decline, but some decline means that they’re up like 760 % instead of 800%.

 

Lindsie (24:01.902)

Well, and Google has some vested interest now in a Reddit as well. So it’s not like this is unrelated. I think there’s a lot of eyebrow raises right now of like, oh, this one domain is now your sole source for a lot of information. And then, oh, Google and Reddit happened to have been in conversation for a long time to…

 

you know, come together. So just very interesting and maybe not, you know, correlated at all, but that’s just interesting.

 

Jay (24:45.486)

Oh yeah. And I mean, it came out with that, that Reddit Google partnership where Reddit gets, is it 80 million a year from Google to have like the ability to train AI models on Reddit content. Like part of that, it was Google gets access to Reddit’s API and I think they get priority access. So they have the ability to not just like crawl Reddit site and just scrape what they want, but they have the access to just like.

 

ingest all of Reddit as it’s happening if they wanted to. And we don’t know how long that access has been there. You know, they announced it recently, but did this partnership happen six months ago and they started getting access to the content at that point? I think that remains to be seen.

 

Lindsie (25:35.982)

We don’t know. All right, well, we’ve talked through some initial opinions, some things that we do know that are happening right now. I think my biggest question that still lingers in my mind is, what does this mean? How is this going to impact the marketer and the business owner that is…

 

looking to sell more of their products and get more visibility in the market and in their space? Are we saying that Google is not an important investment for them at this point?

 

Jay (26:14.957)

No, we certainly have to do some waiting and seeing, you know, back, I don’t know, eight, nine, 10 years, whatever it was at this point, when content farms were all the rage, like a lot of, a lot of marketers and people running websites were seriously wondering if Google was going to be a viable product in the years to come. And that was when like,

 

Answers .com and E -Zine articles and all these other sites just ranked for every possible search. And they just had like outsourced to foreign countries with really cheap labor to write articles about every possible topic. And because the content existed, Google ranked it. And then Penguin came out and largely fixed the problem or at least got us moving in the right direction. So.

 

Lindsie (27:09.228)

Mm -hmm.

 

Jay (27:10.282)

I think a lot of this is going to depend on what Google can do. Like they’ve, they’ve created a system that incentivizes just having content for everything. And with large language models, we have basically zero barrier to entry for creating content for everything. So this is what we get. And I think, you know, yeah, Google seems to be updating something right now. There’s a lot of fluctuation. There’s a lot of talk.

 

about that. We don’t know if it’s going to fix or address the issues we’re talking about, but they need to soon before this becomes a thing that like the average person is complaining about all the time.

 

Lindsie (27:55.31)

Right, right, and it’s definitely getting into those spheres where you’re seeing articles on Forbes and Business Insider and the New York Post of, oh, Google is terrible now. It doesn’t work anymore the way it should be. So it’s definitely a moment of evolution right now for Google and with SGE and Gemini and all of the…

 

AI integrations and products that Google seems to be perhaps distracted by. Maybe that’s an aggressive assumption. But there’s so many things moving right now. It’s a moment to see what Google does with this. And if they seemingly do nothing, then I do think that consumers are going to look for an alternative solution.

 

and it has yet to be seen exactly what that solution will be.

 

Jay (28:52.071)

Yeah, and I mean, can we get into Sundar watch?

 

Lindsie (28:55.822)

Let’s do it.

 

Jay (28:57.383)

So Sundar Pichai, the CEO of Google or CEO of Alphabet, I forget how it all works. Um, I mean, I like, should he be worried about his job?

 

Lindsie (29:12.046)

I would be. I mean, this is a disaster. And it is, they are in the spotlight right now for everything. And I mean, they always are, but I think that people are distracted away from all of the meta and the Twitter X stuff that’s happening. And now Google is in the spotlight for all of the bad things that are happening. And so I do think that there is concern and there is a lot of attention.

 

Jay (29:42.148)

Yeah, I mean, there’s, there’s a thing with all big companies where it gets harder to innovate and it gets harder to go against the grain for the average employee when something is not right. And I think a lot of the debacle with Gemini over the past few weeks is a great sign of that, where things were obviously flawed and nobody stopped it from going into production. And they’re

 

could very well be, I mean, I guess with what’s going on with Google right now, you know, yeah, quality of results can be subjective, but spam, malware, people abusing Google’s own properties for spam and malware, like that’s objectively bad. And it’s either Google doesn’t realize it’s bad or people know it’s bad at Google and.

 

Lindsie (30:27.63)

Right.

 

Jay (30:39.331)

don’t feel empowered to do anything about it or don’t feel like they have the ability to do anything about it. Or Google knows it’s an issue and just doesn’t know what to do. So all of those scenarios, I mean, I think reflect very poorly on leadership and like, yeah, big companies are going to become bureaucratic messes. And that’s where when it’s like.

 

Lindsie (30:55.022)

right.

 

Jay (31:03.425)

we’re losing on the future race with AI. You know, we are definitely behind open AI and we’ve had this very, very public blunder that we are still trying to recover from. And then our core moneymaker is also just in a state of disarray. Like, I mean, hopefully those quarterly earnings still look good, but if things start to slip, I mean, I don’t know. I did see one article on Friday after I put this in the…

 

the outline that it was like, should Pachai be worried about his job? And I definitely would be if I was him.

 

Lindsie (31:41.292)

Mm -hmm. Yep. So I think just to kind of wrap all this up, we are in a moment of a lot of unknowns of where things are going. We know that quality is poor right now. We know that there have been ups and downs for Google historically where they’ve had quality issues and addressed them pretty aggressively. It is possible for this to change. But I think as SEOs, as digital marketers, we also…

 

I think we all need to be very aware of what the market is doing. And if we’re seeing direct impacts of search volume, are people going to TikTok? Are they using DuckDuckGo now? Are there alternative solutions that there is actually a migration to? Because we’ve been talking for a very long time about maybe someday Google will not be the one and only behemoth in this space. And maybe this is the moment for it. We just…

 

We’re gonna have to keep listening and watching and going from there.

 

Jay (32:47.806)

Yeah. And I mean, if something drastic happens where there’s a shift in the market, it’s probably going to be slow because like really what, what Google has to do is just like, make people think that like everything is fine again. They don’t need to like reinvent search results and they don’t need to completely change the way they operate. Uh, they just need people to be like, Oh, yeah.

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